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Yep! Twitter is gonna make a fortune off your drunken night at Chili's
Posted by: ZuDfunck |
October 18, 2010 1:45 PMLet's see. . . you use a free service and then want them to promote your restricted material and give you the profits. . . hmmm... yeah, I would like that deal also.
This really sounds like much to do about nothing. Let me see, I have a photo that I want to sell at some point but show it off on twitter. How can I do that without loss of my property? Well, maybe make a low res thumb of your image and upload that with slight modifications, like a watermark, then the original image is still yours to do with as you please, isn't it?
I don't know but this sounds a bit ridiculous. How many problems would arise if such services allowed everyone to copyright everything they submit? Well, when you think of it it's really funny. . . people complain about every company suing every other company over patents and how those sofware patents shouldn't be allowed yada, yada, but WAIT!!! when it comes to my precious picture that I'm going to upload via a free service. . . I WANT IT PROTECTED!
Posted by: gpeasy |
October 18, 2010 1:55 PMThis article, and all of the other articles that this stemmed from, contains a fundamental misunderstanding about the definition of "Content" in the context of Twitter. Twitter's "Content" is the 140 characters and any metadata stored and served by Twitter. Anything that requires a URL to access (i.e. a link shared on Twitter) is not considered "Content" in the context of Twitter's ToS (from http://twitter.com/tos "any information, text, graphics, or other materials uploaded, downloaded or appearing on the Services (collectively referred to as 'Content')").
This may become an issue if Twitter were to—say for example—buy TwitPic or create their own Photo Sharing tool. And yes, there is potential legal concern with the way that their Media Pane system works in the #newtwitter UI design, as it does state "appearing on" but for their license to apply to the content of their Media Pane, it would require that the license from the service allowing their content to be displayed to be sub-licensed. Prior to the Media Pane in #newtwitter, I would have said this is a complete non-issue. Now, it's just something to "watch" and, if you're really worried about it, don't use services that work in the Media Pane.
tl;dr: This article is vastly misleading. "Content" is the text in a tweet and anything you upload directly to a Twitter website, not to a third-party service or your own servers.
You should know better, RWW.
Posted by: Michael Owens |
October 18, 2010 1:57 PMThis is a significant development for professionals, and it's worth noting to the general public. I wonder how often the people at Twitter might acutally take advantage of this...? The web seems to get more "open" every day, something we all need to be aware of.
Posted by: David Perdew |
October 18, 2010 1:57 PMThis is about lawyers and their constant need to prove value to their clients (whom they charge absurd hourly rates to).
A number of lawyers take this approach (non-exclusive license; right to reproduce, sub-license, etc.). Other, more reasonable lawyers take more of the BasecampHQ approach to managing data on behalf of someone (albeit, under paid accounts).
If Twitter ever tried to resell a photo that was uploaded, they would (most likely) run afoul of a range of Copyright Laws while they try to uphold their T&C which are one-sided and were never reviewed by their User's attorney's in a fair and reasonable negotiation. Additionally, if a Minor uploads photos, without parental consent, good luck appropriating those under their T&C.
If Twitter had strong management, who had more experience, they'd fire the lawyer who wrote the T&C and say, "thanks, bye." Then, go find an attorney who's more forward thinking.
Posted by: Bob |
October 18, 2010 2:04 PMI agree with @MichaelOwens on this, mostly a non-issue. From the TOS,
"...information, text, graphics, or other materials uploaded, downloaded or appearing on the Services (collectively referred to as “Content”)."
So it looks like photos you upload to Twitter (your profile pic and background image) can be used by them, but your linked photos are not uploaded to Twitter so they don't count as "Content" in the TOS.
The only gray area I see is photos appearing in the media pane, since the definition of content includes "appearing on the Services," so avoid using twitpic and the like and there is no issue.
tl;dr +1 to @michaelowens' point
Posted by: aaron.pk |
October 18, 2010 2:27 PMSo, if my photo is hosted at my paid Flickr account and it's labeled "All Rights Reserved" but I send a link to my photo to Twitter... who owns it now?
Posted by: Erin |
October 18, 2010 2:32 PMSeriously? This is a surprise to anyone? People share pictures on Twitter (and third party pic services) because they want the world to see it and SHARE it. Professional photos aren't posting their masterpieces on TwitPic.
Posted by: Russ Hill |
October 18, 2010 2:39 PMMichael Owens said much what I came to say so I won't repeat him.
Based on the false logic of this article, you are implying that if I share a link to a NY Times article, Twitter can use the content from that article to their hearts content. Obviously false.
Anyone can put anything they want into a TOS but that doesn't mean its legal.
Posted by: Jmartens |
October 18, 2010 2:43 PMI am not an expert on this topic, but I believe companies (like Twitter) need to have clauses like this in the TOS to protect themselves from copyright violations. They need the freedom to copy, modify, and reproduce contributed content as well as the right to move it around in on their servers. Technically wouldn't Twitter be violating copyright if the original author didn't approve of how their content was being used, displayed, or modified by Twitter? I was given this notion from different company's rep that deals with online content distribution. Although, the way companies word their TOS make many people worry about losing control of there IP.
Posted by: bobsbag |
October 18, 2010 3:32 PMI don't believe this is as casual as some of the comments indicate; nor, is the Post so off-track.
Twitter are acquiring both photo and video developers to bring this all in-house.
To @bobsbag's point -- yes, Twitter need some non-exclusive publication right, within the boundaries of their service (even extended to the future to some degree); or, even a self-extending license based on a User not deleting files. What Twitter do NOT require is an unrestricted License coupled with the ability to sell, transfer or in any manner profit from the direct licensing of content (they can sell ad space around it and use it for promotional purposes).
Now, yes, anyone would be a fool to post anything on nearly any "free" service out there if they intend to use it commercially themselves. But, I'd look to Flickr's T&C for a better model than what Twitter provide. There are a slew of alternatives out there, only a high paid lawyer will tell you they "must have these draconian T&C."
Posted by: bob r. |
October 18, 2010 5:33 PMObviously false.
Anyone can put anything they want into a TOS but that doesn't mean its lega
Posted by: ogame |
October 18, 2010 8:30 PMSorry but their is no way that this can be legit or enforced. adding a URL to a permalink that contains an embedded image and/or download links to higher quality versions of that image (or other media) does not give Twitter the rights defined in the ToS. Even if this were the legal intentions by Twitter's lawyers and business executives, I have to assume that this would not hold up in a court of law... that is if the terms are not properly modified before a case were to ever get that far.
As for the issue of displaying media on the #NewTwitter Right Side Column used for presenting supplemental meta data, media and eventually ads..... This is not really an issue since only official content partners can use this real estate and those services ToS already apply. I have been waiting for over a month (contacted contentpartnerships@twitter.com) to learn more about the content embedding situation. I'd assume that their would be a whitelisting process and then twitter would utilize common tech to fetch and display media from approved domains (oembed, link rel & meta tags). Ideally, Twitter would also pull in License info when specified and content creators would use preview/watermarked versions of their media for display inside Twitter.com while reserving the high quality media as separate embeds/links on the URL/page.
Posted by: sull |
October 18, 2010 9:19 PMThe problem is people don't try to understand legalise, and try to understand the tech terms for the same. Now lets look at the part of the ToS he has quoted.
use, copy(copy from photo sites to display them within twitter, pic may be copied to cache), reproduce(retweet), process, modify and adapt (reduce 2mb pic to may be 100kb before displaying it), publish (just in case someone decides to print a twitterfeed from a browser?), transmit (send across the internetz), display (duh!) and distribute such Content (retweet!)
"You agree that this license includes the right for Twitter to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals who partner with Twitter for the syndication, broadcast, distribution or publication of such Content on other media and services, subject to our terms and conditions for such Content use"
You know, people use Twitter API and I think that's what they are talking about here. So please stop freaking out, really!
If there's a newsworthy pic you have taken, the agencies will contact you and not twitter. Do they really think Twitter would employ somebody to handle silly requests from media like this? Really?Posted by: | Balu | |
October 19, 2010 12:08 AMNon-issue.
This is a standard language to protect company from people who would upload stuff onto a content distribution service and then sue the same service for copyright infringement. Check Yahoo's, for example:
"With respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of Yahoo! Groups, the license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Yahoo! Services solely for the purposes of providing and promoting the specific Yahoo! Group to which such Content was submitted or made available."
Posted by: twitterer |
October 19, 2010 12:30 AMWell, Twitter can use the photos, and they can even sell them further. So if they appear on magazine covers, tough luck.
However, for use in advertisements, pictures of people need a model release. So there are limits to what the images can be used for. But in general, yes. Twitter (and Facebook) can do pretty much what they want or dare with the content they are sent.
Most of the legalese is there to make the actual service possible, but eg. Twitters ToS goes beyond that.
Posted by: Tarmo Toikkanen |
October 19, 2010 12:39 AMThis might be beneficial for twitter but I don't think that general public would like this. This seems disturbing to any pro photographers who tweet their photographs.
Posted by: street bike accessories |
October 19, 2010 2:18 AMSeriously now, if you share your photos via Twitter or any other social media sites, you lose its rights exclusively and can be picked up by anyone and use it anywhere. If you have photos you don’t want to be used all over the internet, don’t share it or publish it anywhere. Once it is published, it’s gone unless you have stated on your own website against using the photos for other purposes other than yours.
Posted by: Steve Jobs |
October 19, 2010 9:18 AMThis is clearly a load of nonsense. Michael Owens above has debunked this misleading information nicely but I'll add some food for thought: if an article from the New York Times appears in the Twitter media pane can Twitter re-publish and sell that article? I think not. Nor do they "own" your photo. Photofocus did not "consult it's lawyers," Scott Bourne asked his buddy Larry to scan the TOS. Larry is obviously not an entertainment lawyer and knows little about content licensing. This scare mongering was well deconstructed by petapixel dot com yesterday, It's sad that this noise is still floating around and considered legitamate information.
Posted by: Daniel K. Berman |
October 19, 2010 9:39 AMThese are all great comments, and I'm glad to see people unpack this item -- though it's interesting to see where you all agree and disagree. The critiques of our coverage are compelling and much appreciated, though it's important to see that question mark in the title. I put it there for a reason.
I don't think Twitter is "evil" nor do I think that the wildest interpretation of what can be enforced (or not) with the ToS changes are necessarily true. What is important is that a photo blog had consulted their lawyers about it. And lots of people (still) have questions about it. The coverage is the conversation, and we can all only weigh in until our questions are answered. PhotoFocus' means of getting these questions answered was to ask their counsel. And that's significant.
Posted by: Violet Blue |
October 19, 2010 4:10 PMIt we view this to the point of twitter then it's quite beneficial for them, they can do what they want with other photos but I don't think that public would like this.
Posted by: flash banner |
October 19, 2010 11:06 PMMy only worry is people read articles like this by looking at the headline and a few paragraphs only. The notion then starts rumours that twitter owns you and your data and your pictures/video and we will soon have a sequel to the movie social network.
I see you suggest you don't think twitter is "evil" but I can guarantee you most eyeballs on this page will walk away thinking exactly that.
A
Posted by: ashul |
October 20, 2010 2:56 AMI agree with @MichaelOwens comments.
Thanks for the article and interesting commnets.Posted by: Penny |
October 20, 2010 11:50 AMHow is this news? I remember the TOS for facebook saying the exact same thing. Yes, I read the TOS.
Posted by: Dan |
October 21, 2010 10:32 AMI should have looked at the author of the original post. Much ado about mostly nothing. Twitter may eventually start a hosting site for pics and will get rights to things posted there but, as others have noted, just because a ToS says something doesn't mean they can actually get away with it. And I don't think Twitter is evil (certainly not even close to the evil that is Facebook), if I did then I'd have stopped using it long ago.
Posted by: Erik O |
October 21, 2010 10:43 AMNot sure what everyone is surprised about. Most major social networking or blogging platform gain a royalty free right to your photos if you post them. For example, Tumblr, Posterous, etc all gain a royalty free right to any photos you post. The lesson? Don't post photos on the internet unless you are okay with people or companies using them for free. I am surprised people get upset about this, it's 2010 and I thought we all knew this by now.
Posted by: Mike |
October 21, 2010 5:10 PMI dont find this a big shocker - read the tos of most companies and you find this type of proviso. Usually its just ot cover themselves and to provide them with the final word if they wanted to push it - in reality, how many photos would this affect? On the bright side, I could use with some extra exposure so it could work out good for some photogs!
Would it just be the rights to the low res, watermarked image?Posted by: Grant Stringer |
October 22, 2010 1:44 AMThe moment you upload and shared your photos in twitter you have an idea already that it might be use by the third party and not only by you. It's obvious I guess not only in twitter but in other social sites that your photo for that matter when you made public any one can have access on it and can use it. The best way to alter that is not to share at all or try to upload something you know it's okay to let go. I don't give a time to see their provision because it's really obvious though.
Posted by: daniellehudges |
October 23, 2010 12:41 AMWow... this sure seems like a lot about nothing. If you don't want Twitter to "have" your photo, don't send it through Twitter.
As we know, Twitter really doesn't USE photos, but can send links to them. If the "ugly hat" you had on shouldn't be public, shouldn't be used, shouldn't be packaged with other materials, don't post it.
As a pro photographer, I decide who gets to use, see, fold, and spindle my images... and I certainly don't share those on free sites that can use them incorrectly. I suggest you do the same.Posted by: Charlie Seymour Jr |
October 28, 2010 9:02 AMhow many photos would this affect? On the bright side, I could use with some extra exposure so it could work out good for some photogs! thanks
Posted by: ogame |
October 30, 2010 3:27 AMYep! Twitter is gonna make a fortune off your drunken night at Chili's
Posted by: ZuDfunck |
October 18, 2010 1:45 PMLet's see. . . you use a free service and then want them to promote your restricted material and give you the profits. . . hmmm... yeah, I would like that deal also.
This really sounds like much to do about nothing. Let me see, I have a photo that I want to sell at some point but show it off on twitter. How can I do that without loss of my property? Well, maybe make a low res thumb of your image and upload that with slight modifications, like a watermark, then the original image is still yours to do with as you please, isn't it?
I don't know but this sounds a bit ridiculous. How many problems would arise if such services allowed everyone to copyright everything they submit? Well, when you think of it it's really funny. . . people complain about every company suing every other company over patents and how those sofware patents shouldn't be allowed yada, yada, but WAIT!!! when it comes to my precious picture that I'm going to upload via a free service. . . I WANT IT PROTECTED!
Posted by: gpeasy |
October 18, 2010 1:55 PMThis article, and all of the other articles that this stemmed from, contains a fundamental misunderstanding about the definition of "Content" in the context of Twitter. Twitter's "Content" is the 140 characters and any metadata stored and served by Twitter. Anything that requires a URL to access (i.e. a link shared on Twitter) is not considered "Content" in the context of Twitter's ToS (from http://twitter.com/tos "any information, text, graphics, or other materials uploaded, downloaded or appearing on the Services (collectively referred to as 'Content')").
This may become an issue if Twitter were to—say for example—buy TwitPic or create their own Photo Sharing tool. And yes, there is potential legal concern with the way that their Media Pane system works in the #newtwitter UI design, as it does state "appearing on" but for their license to apply to the content of their Media Pane, it would require that the license from the service allowing their content to be displayed to be sub-licensed. Prior to the Media Pane in #newtwitter, I would have said this is a complete non-issue. Now, it's just something to "watch" and, if you're really worried about it, don't use services that work in the Media Pane.
tl;dr: This article is vastly misleading. "Content" is the text in a tweet and anything you upload directly to a Twitter website, not to a third-party service or your own servers.
You should know better, RWW.
Posted by: Michael Owens |
October 18, 2010 1:57 PMThis is a significant development for professionals, and it's worth noting to the general public. I wonder how often the people at Twitter might acutally take advantage of this...? The web seems to get more "open" every day, something we all need to be aware of.
Posted by: David Perdew |
October 18, 2010 1:57 PMThis is about lawyers and their constant need to prove value to their clients (whom they charge absurd hourly rates to).
A number of lawyers take this approach (non-exclusive license; right to reproduce, sub-license, etc.). Other, more reasonable lawyers take more of the BasecampHQ approach to managing data on behalf of someone (albeit, under paid accounts).
If Twitter ever tried to resell a photo that was uploaded, they would (most likely) run afoul of a range of Copyright Laws while they try to uphold their T&C which are one-sided and were never reviewed by their User's attorney's in a fair and reasonable negotiation. Additionally, if a Minor uploads photos, without parental consent, good luck appropriating those under their T&C.
If Twitter had strong management, who had more experience, they'd fire the lawyer who wrote the T&C and say, "thanks, bye." Then, go find an attorney who's more forward thinking.
Posted by: Bob |
October 18, 2010 2:04 PMI agree with @MichaelOwens on this, mostly a non-issue. From the TOS,
"...information, text, graphics, or other materials uploaded, downloaded or appearing on the Services (collectively referred to as “Content”)."
So it looks like photos you upload to Twitter (your profile pic and background image) can be used by them, but your linked photos are not uploaded to Twitter so they don't count as "Content" in the TOS.
The only gray area I see is photos appearing in the media pane, since the definition of content includes "appearing on the Services," so avoid using twitpic and the like and there is no issue.
tl;dr +1 to @michaelowens' point
Posted by: aaron.pk |
October 18, 2010 2:27 PMSo, if my photo is hosted at my paid Flickr account and it's labeled "All Rights Reserved" but I send a link to my photo to Twitter... who owns it now?
Posted by: Erin |
October 18, 2010 2:32 PMSeriously? This is a surprise to anyone? People share pictures on Twitter (and third party pic services) because they want the world to see it and SHARE it. Professional photos aren't posting their masterpieces on TwitPic.
Posted by: Russ Hill |
October 18, 2010 2:39 PMMichael Owens said much what I came to say so I won't repeat him.
Based on the false logic of this article, you are implying that if I share a link to a NY Times article, Twitter can use the content from that article to their hearts content. Obviously false.
Anyone can put anything they want into a TOS but that doesn't mean its legal.
Posted by: Jmartens |
October 18, 2010 2:43 PMI am not an expert on this topic, but I believe companies (like Twitter) need to have clauses like this in the TOS to protect themselves from copyright violations. They need the freedom to copy, modify, and reproduce contributed content as well as the right to move it around in on their servers. Technically wouldn't Twitter be violating copyright if the original author didn't approve of how their content was being used, displayed, or modified by Twitter? I was given this notion from different company's rep that deals with online content distribution. Although, the way companies word their TOS make many people worry about losing control of there IP.
Posted by: bobsbag |
October 18, 2010 3:32 PMI don't believe this is as casual as some of the comments indicate; nor, is the Post so off-track.
Twitter are acquiring both photo and video developers to bring this all in-house.
To @bobsbag's point -- yes, Twitter need some non-exclusive publication right, within the boundaries of their service (even extended to the future to some degree); or, even a self-extending license based on a User not deleting files. What Twitter do NOT require is an unrestricted License coupled with the ability to sell, transfer or in any manner profit from the direct licensing of content (they can sell ad space around it and use it for promotional purposes).
Now, yes, anyone would be a fool to post anything on nearly any "free" service out there if they intend to use it commercially themselves. But, I'd look to Flickr's T&C for a better model than what Twitter provide. There are a slew of alternatives out there, only a high paid lawyer will tell you they "must have these draconian T&C."
Posted by: bob r. |
October 18, 2010 5:33 PMObviously false.
Anyone can put anything they want into a TOS but that doesn't mean its lega
Posted by: ogame |
October 18, 2010 8:30 PMSorry but their is no way that this can be legit or enforced. adding a URL to a permalink that contains an embedded image and/or download links to higher quality versions of that image (or other media) does not give Twitter the rights defined in the ToS. Even if this were the legal intentions by Twitter's lawyers and business executives, I have to assume that this would not hold up in a court of law... that is if the terms are not properly modified before a case were to ever get that far.
As for the issue of displaying media on the #NewTwitter Right Side Column used for presenting supplemental meta data, media and eventually ads..... This is not really an issue since only official content partners can use this real estate and those services ToS already apply. I have been waiting for over a month (contacted contentpartnerships@twitter.com) to learn more about the content embedding situation. I'd assume that their would be a whitelisting process and then twitter would utilize common tech to fetch and display media from approved domains (oembed, link rel & meta tags). Ideally, Twitter would also pull in License info when specified and content creators would use preview/watermarked versions of their media for display inside Twitter.com while reserving the high quality media as separate embeds/links on the URL/page.
Posted by: sull |
October 18, 2010 9:19 PMThe problem is people don't try to understand legalise, and try to understand the tech terms for the same. Now lets look at the part of the ToS he has quoted.
use, copy(copy from photo sites to display them within twitter, pic may be copied to cache), reproduce(retweet), process, modify and adapt (reduce 2mb pic to may be 100kb before displaying it), publish (just in case someone decides to print a twitterfeed from a browser?), transmit (send across the internetz), display (duh!) and distribute such Content (retweet!)
"You agree that this license includes the right for Twitter to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals who partner with Twitter for the syndication, broadcast, distribution or publication of such Content on other media and services, subject to our terms and conditions for such Content use"
You know, people use Twitter API and I think that's what they are talking about here. So please stop freaking out, really!
If there's a newsworthy pic you have taken, the agencies will contact you and not twitter. Do they really think Twitter would employ somebody to handle silly requests from media like this? Really?Posted by: | Balu | |
October 19, 2010 12:08 AMNon-issue.
This is a standard language to protect company from people who would upload stuff onto a content distribution service and then sue the same service for copyright infringement. Check Yahoo's, for example:
"With respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of Yahoo! Groups, the license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Yahoo! Services solely for the purposes of providing and promoting the specific Yahoo! Group to which such Content was submitted or made available."
Posted by: twitterer |
October 19, 2010 12:30 AMWell, Twitter can use the photos, and they can even sell them further. So if they appear on magazine covers, tough luck.
However, for use in advertisements, pictures of people need a model release. So there are limits to what the images can be used for. But in general, yes. Twitter (and Facebook) can do pretty much what they want or dare with the content they are sent.
Most of the legalese is there to make the actual service possible, but eg. Twitters ToS goes beyond that.
Posted by: Tarmo Toikkanen |
October 19, 2010 12:39 AMThis might be beneficial for twitter but I don't think that general public would like this. This seems disturbing to any pro photographers who tweet their photographs.
Posted by: street bike accessories |
October 19, 2010 2:18 AMSeriously now, if you share your photos via Twitter or any other social media sites, you lose its rights exclusively and can be picked up by anyone and use it anywhere. If you have photos you don’t want to be used all over the internet, don’t share it or publish it anywhere. Once it is published, it’s gone unless you have stated on your own website against using the photos for other purposes other than yours.
Posted by: Steve Jobs |
October 19, 2010 9:18 AMThis is clearly a load of nonsense. Michael Owens above has debunked this misleading information nicely but I'll add some food for thought: if an article from the New York Times appears in the Twitter media pane can Twitter re-publish and sell that article? I think not. Nor do they "own" your photo. Photofocus did not "consult it's lawyers," Scott Bourne asked his buddy Larry to scan the TOS. Larry is obviously not an entertainment lawyer and knows little about content licensing. This scare mongering was well deconstructed by petapixel dot com yesterday, It's sad that this noise is still floating around and considered legitamate information.
Posted by: Daniel K. Berman |
October 19, 2010 9:39 AMThese are all great comments, and I'm glad to see people unpack this item -- though it's interesting to see where you all agree and disagree. The critiques of our coverage are compelling and much appreciated, though it's important to see that question mark in the title. I put it there for a reason.
I don't think Twitter is "evil" nor do I think that the wildest interpretation of what can be enforced (or not) with the ToS changes are necessarily true. What is important is that a photo blog had consulted their lawyers about it. And lots of people (still) have questions about it. The coverage is the conversation, and we can all only weigh in until our questions are answered. PhotoFocus' means of getting these questions answered was to ask their counsel. And that's significant.
Posted by: Violet Blue |
October 19, 2010 4:10 PMIt we view this to the point of twitter then it's quite beneficial for them, they can do what they want with other photos but I don't think that public would like this.
Posted by: flash banner |
October 19, 2010 11:06 PMMy only worry is people read articles like this by looking at the headline and a few paragraphs only. The notion then starts rumours that twitter owns you and your data and your pictures/video and we will soon have a sequel to the movie social network.
I see you suggest you don't think twitter is "evil" but I can guarantee you most eyeballs on this page will walk away thinking exactly that.
A
Posted by: ashul |
October 20, 2010 2:56 AMI agree with @MichaelOwens comments.
Thanks for the article and interesting commnets.Posted by: Penny |
October 20, 2010 11:50 AMHow is this news? I remember the TOS for facebook saying the exact same thing. Yes, I read the TOS.
Posted by: Dan |
October 21, 2010 10:32 AMI should have looked at the author of the original post. Much ado about mostly nothing. Twitter may eventually start a hosting site for pics and will get rights to things posted there but, as others have noted, just because a ToS says something doesn't mean they can actually get away with it. And I don't think Twitter is evil (certainly not even close to the evil that is Facebook), if I did then I'd have stopped using it long ago.
Posted by: Erik O |
October 21, 2010 10:43 AMNot sure what everyone is surprised about. Most major social networking or blogging platform gain a royalty free right to your photos if you post them. For example, Tumblr, Posterous, etc all gain a royalty free right to any photos you post. The lesson? Don't post photos on the internet unless you are okay with people or companies using them for free. I am surprised people get upset about this, it's 2010 and I thought we all knew this by now.
Posted by: Mike |
October 21, 2010 5:10 PMI dont find this a big shocker - read the tos of most companies and you find this type of proviso. Usually its just ot cover themselves and to provide them with the final word if they wanted to push it - in reality, how many photos would this affect? On the bright side, I could use with some extra exposure so it could work out good for some photogs!
Would it just be the rights to the low res, watermarked image?Posted by: Grant Stringer |
October 22, 2010 1:44 AMThe moment you upload and shared your photos in twitter you have an idea already that it might be use by the third party and not only by you. It's obvious I guess not only in twitter but in other social sites that your photo for that matter when you made public any one can have access on it and can use it. The best way to alter that is not to share at all or try to upload something you know it's okay to let go. I don't give a time to see their provision because it's really obvious though.
Posted by: daniellehudges |
October 23, 2010 12:41 AMWow... this sure seems like a lot about nothing. If you don't want Twitter to "have" your photo, don't send it through Twitter.
As we know, Twitter really doesn't USE photos, but can send links to them. If the "ugly hat" you had on shouldn't be public, shouldn't be used, shouldn't be packaged with other materials, don't post it.
As a pro photographer, I decide who gets to use, see, fold, and spindle my images... and I certainly don't share those on free sites that can use them incorrectly. I suggest you do the same.Posted by: Charlie Seymour Jr |
October 28, 2010 9:02 AMhow many photos would this affect? On the bright side, I could use with some extra exposure so it could work out good for some photogs! thanks
Posted by: ogame |
October 30, 2010 3:27 AMYep! Twitter is gonna make a fortune off your drunken night at Chili's
Posted by: ZuDfunck |
October 18, 2010 1:45 PMLet's see. . . you use a free service and then want them to promote your restricted material and give you the profits. . . hmmm... yeah, I would like that deal also.
This really sounds like much to do about nothing. Let me see, I have a photo that I want to sell at some point but show it off on twitter. How can I do that without loss of my property? Well, maybe make a low res thumb of your image and upload that with slight modifications, like a watermark, then the original image is still yours to do with as you please, isn't it?
I don't know but this sounds a bit ridiculous. How many problems would arise if such services allowed everyone to copyright everything they submit? Well, when you think of it it's really funny. . . people complain about every company suing every other company over patents and how those sofware patents shouldn't be allowed yada, yada, but WAIT!!! when it comes to my precious picture that I'm going to upload via a free service. . . I WANT IT PROTECTED!
Posted by: gpeasy |
October 18, 2010 1:55 PMThis article, and all of the other articles that this stemmed from, contains a fundamental misunderstanding about the definition of "Content" in the context of Twitter. Twitter's "Content" is the 140 characters and any metadata stored and served by Twitter. Anything that requires a URL to access (i.e. a link shared on Twitter) is not considered "Content" in the context of Twitter's ToS (from http://twitter.com/tos "any information, text, graphics, or other materials uploaded, downloaded or appearing on the Services (collectively referred to as 'Content')").
This may become an issue if Twitter were to—say for example—buy TwitPic or create their own Photo Sharing tool. And yes, there is potential legal concern with the way that their Media Pane system works in the #newtwitter UI design, as it does state "appearing on" but for their license to apply to the content of their Media Pane, it would require that the license from the service allowing their content to be displayed to be sub-licensed. Prior to the Media Pane in #newtwitter, I would have said this is a complete non-issue. Now, it's just something to "watch" and, if you're really worried about it, don't use services that work in the Media Pane.
tl;dr: This article is vastly misleading. "Content" is the text in a tweet and anything you upload directly to a Twitter website, not to a third-party service or your own servers.
You should know better, RWW.
Posted by: Michael Owens |
October 18, 2010 1:57 PMThis is a significant development for professionals, and it's worth noting to the general public. I wonder how often the people at Twitter might acutally take advantage of this...? The web seems to get more "open" every day, something we all need to be aware of.
Posted by: David Perdew |
October 18, 2010 1:57 PMThis is about lawyers and their constant need to prove value to their clients (whom they charge absurd hourly rates to).
A number of lawyers take this approach (non-exclusive license; right to reproduce, sub-license, etc.). Other, more reasonable lawyers take more of the BasecampHQ approach to managing data on behalf of someone (albeit, under paid accounts).
If Twitter ever tried to resell a photo that was uploaded, they would (most likely) run afoul of a range of Copyright Laws while they try to uphold their T&C which are one-sided and were never reviewed by their User's attorney's in a fair and reasonable negotiation. Additionally, if a Minor uploads photos, without parental consent, good luck appropriating those under their T&C.
If Twitter had strong management, who had more experience, they'd fire the lawyer who wrote the T&C and say, "thanks, bye." Then, go find an attorney who's more forward thinking.
Posted by: Bob |
October 18, 2010 2:04 PMI agree with @MichaelOwens on this, mostly a non-issue. From the TOS,
"...information, text, graphics, or other materials uploaded, downloaded or appearing on the Services (collectively referred to as “Content”)."
So it looks like photos you upload to Twitter (your profile pic and background image) can be used by them, but your linked photos are not uploaded to Twitter so they don't count as "Content" in the TOS.
The only gray area I see is photos appearing in the media pane, since the definition of content includes "appearing on the Services," so avoid using twitpic and the like and there is no issue.
tl;dr +1 to @michaelowens' point
Posted by: aaron.pk |
October 18, 2010 2:27 PMSo, if my photo is hosted at my paid Flickr account and it's labeled "All Rights Reserved" but I send a link to my photo to Twitter... who owns it now?
Posted by: Erin |
October 18, 2010 2:32 PMSeriously? This is a surprise to anyone? People share pictures on Twitter (and third party pic services) because they want the world to see it and SHARE it. Professional photos aren't posting their masterpieces on TwitPic.
Posted by: Russ Hill |
October 18, 2010 2:39 PMMichael Owens said much what I came to say so I won't repeat him.
Based on the false logic of this article, you are implying that if I share a link to a NY Times article, Twitter can use the content from that article to their hearts content. Obviously false.
Anyone can put anything they want into a TOS but that doesn't mean its legal.
Posted by: Jmartens |
October 18, 2010 2:43 PMI am not an expert on this topic, but I believe companies (like Twitter) need to have clauses like this in the TOS to protect themselves from copyright violations. They need the freedom to copy, modify, and reproduce contributed content as well as the right to move it around in on their servers. Technically wouldn't Twitter be violating copyright if the original author didn't approve of how their content was being used, displayed, or modified by Twitter? I was given this notion from different company's rep that deals with online content distribution. Although, the way companies word their TOS make many people worry about losing control of there IP.
Posted by: bobsbag |
October 18, 2010 3:32 PMI don't believe this is as casual as some of the comments indicate; nor, is the Post so off-track.
Twitter are acquiring both photo and video developers to bring this all in-house.
To @bobsbag's point -- yes, Twitter need some non-exclusive publication right, within the boundaries of their service (even extended to the future to some degree); or, even a self-extending license based on a User not deleting files. What Twitter do NOT require is an unrestricted License coupled with the ability to sell, transfer or in any manner profit from the direct licensing of content (they can sell ad space around it and use it for promotional purposes).
Now, yes, anyone would be a fool to post anything on nearly any "free" service out there if they intend to use it commercially themselves. But, I'd look to Flickr's T&C for a better model than what Twitter provide. There are a slew of alternatives out there, only a high paid lawyer will tell you they "must have these draconian T&C."
Posted by: bob r. |
October 18, 2010 5:33 PMObviously false.
Anyone can put anything they want into a TOS but that doesn't mean its lega
Posted by: ogame |
October 18, 2010 8:30 PMSorry but their is no way that this can be legit or enforced. adding a URL to a permalink that contains an embedded image and/or download links to higher quality versions of that image (or other media) does not give Twitter the rights defined in the ToS. Even if this were the legal intentions by Twitter's lawyers and business executives, I have to assume that this would not hold up in a court of law... that is if the terms are not properly modified before a case were to ever get that far.
As for the issue of displaying media on the #NewTwitter Right Side Column used for presenting supplemental meta data, media and eventually ads..... This is not really an issue since only official content partners can use this real estate and those services ToS already apply. I have been waiting for over a month (contacted contentpartnerships@twitter.com) to learn more about the content embedding situation. I'd assume that their would be a whitelisting process and then twitter would utilize common tech to fetch and display media from approved domains (oembed, link rel & meta tags). Ideally, Twitter would also pull in License info when specified and content creators would use preview/watermarked versions of their media for display inside Twitter.com while reserving the high quality media as separate embeds/links on the URL/page.
Posted by: sull |
October 18, 2010 9:19 PMThe problem is people don't try to understand legalise, and try to understand the tech terms for the same. Now lets look at the part of the ToS he has quoted.
use, copy(copy from photo sites to display them within twitter, pic may be copied to cache), reproduce(retweet), process, modify and adapt (reduce 2mb pic to may be 100kb before displaying it), publish (just in case someone decides to print a twitterfeed from a browser?), transmit (send across the internetz), display (duh!) and distribute such Content (retweet!)
"You agree that this license includes the right for Twitter to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals who partner with Twitter for the syndication, broadcast, distribution or publication of such Content on other media and services, subject to our terms and conditions for such Content use"
You know, people use Twitter API and I think that's what they are talking about here. So please stop freaking out, really!
If there's a newsworthy pic you have taken, the agencies will contact you and not twitter. Do they really think Twitter would employ somebody to handle silly requests from media like this? Really?Posted by: | Balu | |
October 19, 2010 12:08 AMNon-issue.
This is a standard language to protect company from people who would upload stuff onto a content distribution service and then sue the same service for copyright infringement. Check Yahoo's, for example:
"With respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of Yahoo! Groups, the license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Yahoo! Services solely for the purposes of providing and promoting the specific Yahoo! Group to which such Content was submitted or made available."
Posted by: twitterer |
October 19, 2010 12:30 AMWell, Twitter can use the photos, and they can even sell them further. So if they appear on magazine covers, tough luck.
However, for use in advertisements, pictures of people need a model release. So there are limits to what the images can be used for. But in general, yes. Twitter (and Facebook) can do pretty much what they want or dare with the content they are sent.
Most of the legalese is there to make the actual service possible, but eg. Twitters ToS goes beyond that.
Posted by: Tarmo Toikkanen |
October 19, 2010 12:39 AMThis might be beneficial for twitter but I don't think that general public would like this. This seems disturbing to any pro photographers who tweet their photographs.
Posted by: street bike accessories |
October 19, 2010 2:18 AMSeriously now, if you share your photos via Twitter or any other social media sites, you lose its rights exclusively and can be picked up by anyone and use it anywhere. If you have photos you don’t want to be used all over the internet, don’t share it or publish it anywhere. Once it is published, it’s gone unless you have stated on your own website against using the photos for other purposes other than yours.
Posted by: Steve Jobs |
October 19, 2010 9:18 AMThis is clearly a load of nonsense. Michael Owens above has debunked this misleading information nicely but I'll add some food for thought: if an article from the New York Times appears in the Twitter media pane can Twitter re-publish and sell that article? I think not. Nor do they "own" your photo. Photofocus did not "consult it's lawyers," Scott Bourne asked his buddy Larry to scan the TOS. Larry is obviously not an entertainment lawyer and knows little about content licensing. This scare mongering was well deconstructed by petapixel dot com yesterday, It's sad that this noise is still floating around and considered legitamate information.
Posted by: Daniel K. Berman |
October 19, 2010 9:39 AMThese are all great comments, and I'm glad to see people unpack this item -- though it's interesting to see where you all agree and disagree. The critiques of our coverage are compelling and much appreciated, though it's important to see that question mark in the title. I put it there for a reason.
I don't think Twitter is "evil" nor do I think that the wildest interpretation of what can be enforced (or not) with the ToS changes are necessarily true. What is important is that a photo blog had consulted their lawyers about it. And lots of people (still) have questions about it. The coverage is the conversation, and we can all only weigh in until our questions are answered. PhotoFocus' means of getting these questions answered was to ask their counsel. And that's significant.
Posted by: Violet Blue |
October 19, 2010 4:10 PMIt we view this to the point of twitter then it's quite beneficial for them, they can do what they want with other photos but I don't think that public would like this.
Posted by: flash banner |
October 19, 2010 11:06 PMMy only worry is people read articles like this by looking at the headline and a few paragraphs only. The notion then starts rumours that twitter owns you and your data and your pictures/video and we will soon have a sequel to the movie social network.
I see you suggest you don't think twitter is "evil" but I can guarantee you most eyeballs on this page will walk away thinking exactly that.
A
Posted by: ashul |
October 20, 2010 2:56 AMI agree with @MichaelOwens comments.
Thanks for the article and interesting commnets.Posted by: Penny |
October 20, 2010 11:50 AMHow is this news? I remember the TOS for facebook saying the exact same thing. Yes, I read the TOS.
Posted by: Dan |
October 21, 2010 10:32 AMI should have looked at the author of the original post. Much ado about mostly nothing. Twitter may eventually start a hosting site for pics and will get rights to things posted there but, as others have noted, just because a ToS says something doesn't mean they can actually get away with it. And I don't think Twitter is evil (certainly not even close to the evil that is Facebook), if I did then I'd have stopped using it long ago.
Posted by: Erik O |
October 21, 2010 10:43 AMNot sure what everyone is surprised about. Most major social networking or blogging platform gain a royalty free right to your photos if you post them. For example, Tumblr, Posterous, etc all gain a royalty free right to any photos you post. The lesson? Don't post photos on the internet unless you are okay with people or companies using them for free. I am surprised people get upset about this, it's 2010 and I thought we all knew this by now.
Posted by: Mike |
October 21, 2010 5:10 PMI dont find this a big shocker - read the tos of most companies and you find this type of proviso. Usually its just ot cover themselves and to provide them with the final word if they wanted to push it - in reality, how many photos would this affect? On the bright side, I could use with some extra exposure so it could work out good for some photogs!
Would it just be the rights to the low res, watermarked image?Posted by: Grant Stringer |
October 22, 2010 1:44 AMThe moment you upload and shared your photos in twitter you have an idea already that it might be use by the third party and not only by you. It's obvious I guess not only in twitter but in other social sites that your photo for that matter when you made public any one can have access on it and can use it. The best way to alter that is not to share at all or try to upload something you know it's okay to let go. I don't give a time to see their provision because it's really obvious though.
Posted by: daniellehudges |
October 23, 2010 12:41 AMWow... this sure seems like a lot about nothing. If you don't want Twitter to "have" your photo, don't send it through Twitter.
As we know, Twitter really doesn't USE photos, but can send links to them. If the "ugly hat" you had on shouldn't be public, shouldn't be used, shouldn't be packaged with other materials, don't post it.
As a pro photographer, I decide who gets to use, see, fold, and spindle my images... and I certainly don't share those on free sites that can use them incorrectly. I suggest you do the same.Posted by: Charlie Seymour Jr |
October 28, 2010 9:02 AMhow many photos would this affect? On the bright side, I could use with some extra exposure so it could work out good for some photogs! thanks
Posted by: ogame |
October 30, 2010 3:27 AM
1. It begins:
2. "... Rand Paul projected by CNN to win his Senate race in Kentucky and another conservative, Dan Coats, projected to win the Senate race in Indiana."
3. "I'm more comfortable with Fox," say I, after watching CNN for a while and then switching.
4. Oh, CNN is better. Better graphics. Lots of people saying things. Annoying much of the time, but more detail. Mary Matalin enthusing about Portman winning in Ohio, a state Obama won.
5. DeMint already making his victory speech. Kitty Dukakis in trouble for seeming like "a walking billboard."
6. CNN says Coons wins. We won't have Christine O'Donnell to kick around anymore.
7. Rubio! David Gergen enthuses about "a Republican Latino with star power."
8. "Wow, the first time one of the fictional Althouse characters actually had a complete story arc! Bravo!" (Scroll up.)
9. It's so sad for the Democrats. They gave us so many things. Gifts. Expensive gifts. That we didn't want. That they bought with our money.
10. Tim Kaine blabs on and on, making a happy face. Eventually, Wolf Blitzer cuts hims off with "It's going to be a long night for you.
11. CNN's music for tonight is the same (or just close) to what was used in the HBO John Adams series. It's about the Framers, no? As the Tea Party clinches it.
12. Drudge says: "REPUBLICANS WIN SENATE SEATS: AL, FL, GA, IN, OH, KY, MO, NH, SC... DEMS WIN: CT, DE, MD... TOO CLOSE TO CALL: PA, IL..." Hey, what happened to California? Earlier he was calling it for Boxer.
13. Manchin. "Huge win" for the Democrats, says Wolf Blitzer, about the hot West Virginia race.
14. The GOP takes the House. It's outside of the margin of error, says NBC. Pelosi is gone. Ding dong. [UPDATE: Now MSNBC is calling that "a mistake." MSNBC is awful.]
15. NBC says Wisconsin is "too close to call," as the polls close.
16. Rand Paul victory speech: "I have a message! A message from the people of Kentucky! A message that is loud and clear and does not mince words! We've come to take our government back!"
17. MSNBC is hilarious. They're near meltdown. Rand Paul will destroy America. The Republicans "salivate at the thought" of worldwide economic collapse.
18. O'Donnell conceding. Very cheerful. Chirpy. I listened to Marco Rubio's victory speech a few minutes ago, which was, by contrast, very mellow.
19. Scott Walker has, it seems, won the Governorship here in Wisconsin. That's supposed to mean — that must mean — no to the high-speed train boondoggle. Also in Wisconsin, Russ Feingold is way behind.
20. Feingold has lost, quite decisively. I'm sorry to see him go. He's a good man. But I should admit that I voted against him. I had to vote for the Party of No.
21. Geraldine Ferraro and Sarah Palin appear side-by-side on Fox News, analyzing the elections, denouncing sexism, and then ending on this adorable, ultra-girlie note:
22. Screen shot:
23. I just thought that was amusing, the way YouTube inserted my face into the Fox News. By the way, did you notice, at the end of the clip, when Geraldine said she wanted to go on "Dancing with the Stars," Sarah said "I'll hook you up"?
24. John Boehner tears up talking about American values, which he's chased all his life. Then, talking about his business, he sobs. Keep it together, Boehnsy!
25. That got a little... weird. I hope Boehnsy is ready to lead. Anyway, here in Dane County, Feingold's campaign manager George Aldrich is not giving up: "Russ is down by 80,000 votes, but...up to 1.4 million votes haven’t been counted." None of the Madison votes were in when he said that: "We are confident that this race is going to tighten, it is going to tighten quickly, and we may be in for a long night here."
25. Over at Drudge, it's the 3 Rs:
Rubio, Rand, and Ron.
26. Charles Krauthammer on Fox News: "The Obama agenda is dead." The Democrats have retained the Senate, apparently, but, looking forward to 2012, they will, self-defensively, distance themselves from Obama — says the Kraut.
27. Feingold has conceded. NYT:
Quoting Bob Dylan, he said, "My heart is not weary, it's light and free, and I've got nothing but affection for those who have sailed with me."The Times misses that "Forward" is the state motto. And maybe that "fist in the air" was posing as the Wisconsin "Forward" statue.
It is not clear what he will do next, but Mr. Feingold, 57, told the crowd: "It's on to the next fight, it's on to the next battle, it's on to 2012 and it is on to our next adventure, forward." He raised his fist in the air and left the stage.
28. Karl Rove exclaims that he's "exhausted." I was just saying he looked tired.
29. Speaking of tired, it's interesting that Harry Reid will be sticking around. There's something so dreary about him. Does his victory cheer Democrats? Or would they have had more fun kicking Sharron Angle around?
30. I'm tired too. See you in the morning.
eric seiger
Great <b>news</b>: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session <b>...</b>
Great news: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session.
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The Allmusic Blog » <b>News</b> Roundup: 11/10/2010
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1. It begins:
2. "... Rand Paul projected by CNN to win his Senate race in Kentucky and another conservative, Dan Coats, projected to win the Senate race in Indiana."
3. "I'm more comfortable with Fox," say I, after watching CNN for a while and then switching.
4. Oh, CNN is better. Better graphics. Lots of people saying things. Annoying much of the time, but more detail. Mary Matalin enthusing about Portman winning in Ohio, a state Obama won.
5. DeMint already making his victory speech. Kitty Dukakis in trouble for seeming like "a walking billboard."
6. CNN says Coons wins. We won't have Christine O'Donnell to kick around anymore.
7. Rubio! David Gergen enthuses about "a Republican Latino with star power."
8. "Wow, the first time one of the fictional Althouse characters actually had a complete story arc! Bravo!" (Scroll up.)
9. It's so sad for the Democrats. They gave us so many things. Gifts. Expensive gifts. That we didn't want. That they bought with our money.
10. Tim Kaine blabs on and on, making a happy face. Eventually, Wolf Blitzer cuts hims off with "It's going to be a long night for you.
11. CNN's music for tonight is the same (or just close) to what was used in the HBO John Adams series. It's about the Framers, no? As the Tea Party clinches it.
12. Drudge says: "REPUBLICANS WIN SENATE SEATS: AL, FL, GA, IN, OH, KY, MO, NH, SC... DEMS WIN: CT, DE, MD... TOO CLOSE TO CALL: PA, IL..." Hey, what happened to California? Earlier he was calling it for Boxer.
13. Manchin. "Huge win" for the Democrats, says Wolf Blitzer, about the hot West Virginia race.
14. The GOP takes the House. It's outside of the margin of error, says NBC. Pelosi is gone. Ding dong. [UPDATE: Now MSNBC is calling that "a mistake." MSNBC is awful.]
15. NBC says Wisconsin is "too close to call," as the polls close.
16. Rand Paul victory speech: "I have a message! A message from the people of Kentucky! A message that is loud and clear and does not mince words! We've come to take our government back!"
17. MSNBC is hilarious. They're near meltdown. Rand Paul will destroy America. The Republicans "salivate at the thought" of worldwide economic collapse.
18. O'Donnell conceding. Very cheerful. Chirpy. I listened to Marco Rubio's victory speech a few minutes ago, which was, by contrast, very mellow.
19. Scott Walker has, it seems, won the Governorship here in Wisconsin. That's supposed to mean — that must mean — no to the high-speed train boondoggle. Also in Wisconsin, Russ Feingold is way behind.
20. Feingold has lost, quite decisively. I'm sorry to see him go. He's a good man. But I should admit that I voted against him. I had to vote for the Party of No.
21. Geraldine Ferraro and Sarah Palin appear side-by-side on Fox News, analyzing the elections, denouncing sexism, and then ending on this adorable, ultra-girlie note:
22. Screen shot:
23. I just thought that was amusing, the way YouTube inserted my face into the Fox News. By the way, did you notice, at the end of the clip, when Geraldine said she wanted to go on "Dancing with the Stars," Sarah said "I'll hook you up"?
24. John Boehner tears up talking about American values, which he's chased all his life. Then, talking about his business, he sobs. Keep it together, Boehnsy!
25. That got a little... weird. I hope Boehnsy is ready to lead. Anyway, here in Dane County, Feingold's campaign manager George Aldrich is not giving up: "Russ is down by 80,000 votes, but...up to 1.4 million votes haven’t been counted." None of the Madison votes were in when he said that: "We are confident that this race is going to tighten, it is going to tighten quickly, and we may be in for a long night here."
25. Over at Drudge, it's the 3 Rs:
Rubio, Rand, and Ron.
26. Charles Krauthammer on Fox News: "The Obama agenda is dead." The Democrats have retained the Senate, apparently, but, looking forward to 2012, they will, self-defensively, distance themselves from Obama — says the Kraut.
27. Feingold has conceded. NYT:
Quoting Bob Dylan, he said, "My heart is not weary, it's light and free, and I've got nothing but affection for those who have sailed with me."The Times misses that "Forward" is the state motto. And maybe that "fist in the air" was posing as the Wisconsin "Forward" statue.
It is not clear what he will do next, but Mr. Feingold, 57, told the crowd: "It's on to the next fight, it's on to the next battle, it's on to 2012 and it is on to our next adventure, forward." He raised his fist in the air and left the stage.
28. Karl Rove exclaims that he's "exhausted." I was just saying he looked tired.
29. Speaking of tired, it's interesting that Harry Reid will be sticking around. There's something so dreary about him. Does his victory cheer Democrats? Or would they have had more fun kicking Sharron Angle around?
30. I'm tired too. See you in the morning.
eric seiger
Great <b>news</b>: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session <b>...</b>
Great news: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session.
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Pulse News Mini, popular news feed aggregator and reader for iPhone, Android is now free. Download Pulse News Mini for iPhone, Android ....
The Allmusic Blog » <b>News</b> Roundup: 11/10/2010
The blog site of allmusic.com. Music news, reviews of new songs, information about upcoming releases and tours, highlighting forgotten treasures, rediscoveries, and all manners of interesting music culled from the AMG archive.
eric seiger
eric seiger
eric seiger
Great <b>news</b>: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session <b>...</b>
Great news: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session.
Pulse <b>News</b> Reader Free For iPhone, Android | Download
Pulse News Mini, popular news feed aggregator and reader for iPhone, Android is now free. Download Pulse News Mini for iPhone, Android ....
The Allmusic Blog » <b>News</b> Roundup: 11/10/2010
The blog site of allmusic.com. Music news, reviews of new songs, information about upcoming releases and tours, highlighting forgotten treasures, rediscoveries, and all manners of interesting music culled from the AMG archive.
eric seiger
Comments
Subscribe to comments for this post OR Subscribe to comments for all ReadWriteWeb posts
1. It begins:
2. "... Rand Paul projected by CNN to win his Senate race in Kentucky and another conservative, Dan Coats, projected to win the Senate race in Indiana."
3. "I'm more comfortable with Fox," say I, after watching CNN for a while and then switching.
4. Oh, CNN is better. Better graphics. Lots of people saying things. Annoying much of the time, but more detail. Mary Matalin enthusing about Portman winning in Ohio, a state Obama won.
5. DeMint already making his victory speech. Kitty Dukakis in trouble for seeming like "a walking billboard."
6. CNN says Coons wins. We won't have Christine O'Donnell to kick around anymore.
7. Rubio! David Gergen enthuses about "a Republican Latino with star power."
8. "Wow, the first time one of the fictional Althouse characters actually had a complete story arc! Bravo!" (Scroll up.)
9. It's so sad for the Democrats. They gave us so many things. Gifts. Expensive gifts. That we didn't want. That they bought with our money.
10. Tim Kaine blabs on and on, making a happy face. Eventually, Wolf Blitzer cuts hims off with "It's going to be a long night for you.
11. CNN's music for tonight is the same (or just close) to what was used in the HBO John Adams series. It's about the Framers, no? As the Tea Party clinches it.
12. Drudge says: "REPUBLICANS WIN SENATE SEATS: AL, FL, GA, IN, OH, KY, MO, NH, SC... DEMS WIN: CT, DE, MD... TOO CLOSE TO CALL: PA, IL..." Hey, what happened to California? Earlier he was calling it for Boxer.
13. Manchin. "Huge win" for the Democrats, says Wolf Blitzer, about the hot West Virginia race.
14. The GOP takes the House. It's outside of the margin of error, says NBC. Pelosi is gone. Ding dong. [UPDATE: Now MSNBC is calling that "a mistake." MSNBC is awful.]
15. NBC says Wisconsin is "too close to call," as the polls close.
16. Rand Paul victory speech: "I have a message! A message from the people of Kentucky! A message that is loud and clear and does not mince words! We've come to take our government back!"
17. MSNBC is hilarious. They're near meltdown. Rand Paul will destroy America. The Republicans "salivate at the thought" of worldwide economic collapse.
18. O'Donnell conceding. Very cheerful. Chirpy. I listened to Marco Rubio's victory speech a few minutes ago, which was, by contrast, very mellow.
19. Scott Walker has, it seems, won the Governorship here in Wisconsin. That's supposed to mean — that must mean — no to the high-speed train boondoggle. Also in Wisconsin, Russ Feingold is way behind.
20. Feingold has lost, quite decisively. I'm sorry to see him go. He's a good man. But I should admit that I voted against him. I had to vote for the Party of No.
21. Geraldine Ferraro and Sarah Palin appear side-by-side on Fox News, analyzing the elections, denouncing sexism, and then ending on this adorable, ultra-girlie note:
22. Screen shot:
23. I just thought that was amusing, the way YouTube inserted my face into the Fox News. By the way, did you notice, at the end of the clip, when Geraldine said she wanted to go on "Dancing with the Stars," Sarah said "I'll hook you up"?
24. John Boehner tears up talking about American values, which he's chased all his life. Then, talking about his business, he sobs. Keep it together, Boehnsy!
25. That got a little... weird. I hope Boehnsy is ready to lead. Anyway, here in Dane County, Feingold's campaign manager George Aldrich is not giving up: "Russ is down by 80,000 votes, but...up to 1.4 million votes haven’t been counted." None of the Madison votes were in when he said that: "We are confident that this race is going to tighten, it is going to tighten quickly, and we may be in for a long night here."
25. Over at Drudge, it's the 3 Rs:
Rubio, Rand, and Ron.
26. Charles Krauthammer on Fox News: "The Obama agenda is dead." The Democrats have retained the Senate, apparently, but, looking forward to 2012, they will, self-defensively, distance themselves from Obama — says the Kraut.
27. Feingold has conceded. NYT:
Quoting Bob Dylan, he said, "My heart is not weary, it's light and free, and I've got nothing but affection for those who have sailed with me."The Times misses that "Forward" is the state motto. And maybe that "fist in the air" was posing as the Wisconsin "Forward" statue.
It is not clear what he will do next, but Mr. Feingold, 57, told the crowd: "It's on to the next fight, it's on to the next battle, it's on to 2012 and it is on to our next adventure, forward." He raised his fist in the air and left the stage.
28. Karl Rove exclaims that he's "exhausted." I was just saying he looked tired.
29. Speaking of tired, it's interesting that Harry Reid will be sticking around. There's something so dreary about him. Does his victory cheer Democrats? Or would they have had more fun kicking Sharron Angle around?
30. I'm tired too. See you in the morning.
eric seiger
eric seiger
Great <b>news</b>: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session <b>...</b>
Great news: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session.
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Pulse News Mini, popular news feed aggregator and reader for iPhone, Android is now free. Download Pulse News Mini for iPhone, Android ....
The Allmusic Blog » <b>News</b> Roundup: 11/10/2010
The blog site of allmusic.com. Music news, reviews of new songs, information about upcoming releases and tours, highlighting forgotten treasures, rediscoveries, and all manners of interesting music culled from the AMG archive.
eric seiger
eric seiger
Great <b>news</b>: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session <b>...</b>
Great news: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session.
Pulse <b>News</b> Reader Free For iPhone, Android | Download
Pulse News Mini, popular news feed aggregator and reader for iPhone, Android is now free. Download Pulse News Mini for iPhone, Android ....
The Allmusic Blog » <b>News</b> Roundup: 11/10/2010
The blog site of allmusic.com. Music news, reviews of new songs, information about upcoming releases and tours, highlighting forgotten treasures, rediscoveries, and all manners of interesting music culled from the AMG archive.
eric seiger
Great <b>news</b>: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session <b>...</b>
Great news: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session.
Pulse <b>News</b> Reader Free For iPhone, Android | Download
Pulse News Mini, popular news feed aggregator and reader for iPhone, Android is now free. Download Pulse News Mini for iPhone, Android ....
The Allmusic Blog » <b>News</b> Roundup: 11/10/2010
The blog site of allmusic.com. Music news, reviews of new songs, information about upcoming releases and tours, highlighting forgotten treasures, rediscoveries, and all manners of interesting music culled from the AMG archive.
eric seiger
Great <b>news</b>: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session <b>...</b>
Great news: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session.
Pulse <b>News</b> Reader Free For iPhone, Android | Download
Pulse News Mini, popular news feed aggregator and reader for iPhone, Android is now free. Download Pulse News Mini for iPhone, Android ....
The Allmusic Blog » <b>News</b> Roundup: 11/10/2010
The blog site of allmusic.com. Music news, reviews of new songs, information about upcoming releases and tours, highlighting forgotten treasures, rediscoveries, and all manners of interesting music culled from the AMG archive.
eric seiger eric seiger
eric seiger
eric seiger
eric seiger
Great <b>news</b>: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session <b>...</b>
Great news: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session.
Pulse <b>News</b> Reader Free For iPhone, Android | Download
Pulse News Mini, popular news feed aggregator and reader for iPhone, Android is now free. Download Pulse News Mini for iPhone, Android ....
The Allmusic Blog » <b>News</b> Roundup: 11/10/2010
The blog site of allmusic.com. Music news, reviews of new songs, information about upcoming releases and tours, highlighting forgotten treasures, rediscoveries, and all manners of interesting music culled from the AMG archive.
eric seiger
Great <b>news</b>: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session <b>...</b>
Great news: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session.
Pulse <b>News</b> Reader Free For iPhone, Android | Download
Pulse News Mini, popular news feed aggregator and reader for iPhone, Android is now free. Download Pulse News Mini for iPhone, Android ....
The Allmusic Blog » <b>News</b> Roundup: 11/10/2010
The blog site of allmusic.com. Music news, reviews of new songs, information about upcoming releases and tours, highlighting forgotten treasures, rediscoveries, and all manners of interesting music culled from the AMG archive.
eric seiger
Great <b>news</b>: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session <b>...</b>
Great news: Dems ready to push amnesty during lame duck session.
Pulse <b>News</b> Reader Free For iPhone, Android | Download
Pulse News Mini, popular news feed aggregator and reader for iPhone, Android is now free. Download Pulse News Mini for iPhone, Android ....
The Allmusic Blog » <b>News</b> Roundup: 11/10/2010
The blog site of allmusic.com. Music news, reviews of new songs, information about upcoming releases and tours, highlighting forgotten treasures, rediscoveries, and all manners of interesting music culled from the AMG archive.
eric seiger
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